15:00:39 <gwd> #startmeeting Virt SIG
15:00:39 <centbot> Meeting started Tue Mar  3 15:00:39 2020 UTC.  The chair is gwd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:39 <centbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:44 * sbonazzo here
15:00:45 <gwd> #chair sbonazzo
15:00:45 <centbot> Current chairs: gwd sbonazzo
15:01:06 <anthonyper> gwd: Hi
15:01:12 <gwd> #chair anthonyper
15:01:12 <centbot> Current chairs: anthonyper gwd sbonazzo
15:03:29 <sbonazzo> I think we can start
15:03:52 <gwd> sbonazzo: You want to go first?
15:03:57 <sbonazzo> gwd ok
15:04:07 <sbonazzo> #topic oVirt updates
15:04:43 <sbonazzo> #info Advanced Virtualization from RHEL 8.1.1 is being built into CentOS CBS, first packages are landing in
15:04:46 <sbonazzo> #link https://cbs.centos.org/repos/virt8-advanced-virtualization-candidate/
15:05:23 <sbonazzo> #info a few packages are still missing there, they'll move to testing as soon as danilo will finish to rebuild them
15:05:57 <danilocesar> sbonazzo: sorry, can't join the meeting. Got a conflict.
15:06:07 <sbonazzo> #info oVirt 4.4.0 upstream is reaching beta milestone soon, it will consume danilocesar's advanved virtualization packages
15:06:19 <sbonazzo> danilocesar: ok
15:06:43 <danilocesar> packages are almost done. I will resume the work today. Still missing three (libguestgs, libguestfs-winsupport and ndbkit)
15:07:11 <sbonazzo> #info packages are almost done. Still missing three (libguestgs, libguestfs-winsupport and ndbkit)
15:07:19 <sbonazzo> danilocesar: thanks for the update on that
15:07:39 <danilocesar> no problem.
15:07:51 <sbonazzo> #info we are still missing the pipeline to get the packages published to buildlogs and mirrors, waiting on CentOS Core / infra for updates on that
15:08:29 <sbonazzo> I would also like to introduce ymankad to the Virt SIG
15:08:39 <ymankad> Hello!
15:08:40 <sbonazzo> ymankad: maybe you want to say a few words
15:08:52 <ymankad> sbonazzo, thank you for the introduction Sandro
15:09:00 <rbowen> Welcome!
15:09:22 <ymankad> sbonazzo, should I use the the 'info' to log updates into minutes ?
15:09:34 <sbonazzo> #chair ymankad
15:09:34 <centbot> Current chairs: anthonyper gwd sbonazzo ymankad
15:09:46 <sbonazzo> ymankad: yes if you want it to be logged
15:10:36 <ymankad> #info Hello Virt SIG, I work in the Virtualization group at Red Hat and recently became a Product Owner who will be working closely with oVirt an the Virt group on Advanced Virtualization
15:11:04 <gwd> Cool, welcome, ymankad!
15:11:16 <ymankad> #info I work on the same group as Danilo, and we will be working on getting the latest virt packages in CentOS 8 :)
15:11:23 <ymankad> rbowen, gwd thank you
15:12:09 <gwd> Maybe at some point you can describe what's coming down the pipe -- RHEL 8 seems to be structured rather differently than RHEL 7.
15:12:10 <ymankad> sbonazzo, back to you
15:12:32 <sbonazzo> thanks ymankad!
15:12:48 <ymankad> gwd, yes, that's true. I could do an update on upcoming RHEL-8 features for Virt
15:13:18 <sbonazzo> #info working with the OpsTools SIG on getting newest collectd 5.11 also into oVirt nodes once upstream will release it
15:14:15 <sbonazzo> #info finally, oVirt 4.3.9 is going to be released upstream this month, Virt SIG will follow.
15:14:25 <sbonazzo> that's it on my side.
15:15:35 <gwd> #topic Xen update
15:16:04 * CRCinAU waves
15:16:17 <gwd> #info Updated kernel to 4.9.215
15:16:50 <gwd> #info Stalled somewhat due to our community manager suddenly passing away; should have updates to 4.12 soon.
15:16:58 <gwd> Hey CRCinAU, just in the middle of a Xen update.
15:17:03 <gwd> #chair CRCinAU
15:17:03 <centbot> Current chairs: CRCinAU anthonyper gwd sbonazzo ymankad
15:17:37 <gwd> #info Occasionally making noises about combining efforts with Xen Made Easy
15:17:54 <CRCinAU> hahaha yeah :)
15:18:10 <gwd> ...which are Xen packages for CentOS, run by CRCinAU since before the Virt SIG existed
15:18:20 <CRCinAU> still always seems that policies diverge though.
15:19:02 <gwd> I thought that the Linux kernel discussion looked useful; we just sort of stalled at some point.
15:19:30 <CRCinAU> fwiw, I currently have kernel 5.4 building / packages for CentOS 6 / 7 / 8.
15:19:43 <gwd> Oh, yes; maybe I should log...
15:20:07 <CRCinAU> I also have Xen 4.13 packages for 6 / 7 / 8 also
15:20:21 <gwd> #info Xen Made Easy maintainer did some work getting 4.13 building for CentOS 8, "breaking ground" for when the Virt SIG can do it
15:20:25 <CRCinAU> so pretty much the same package set across all three generations
15:20:42 <gwd> anthonyper: Anything else to add for the update?
15:22:06 <CRCinAU> policy wise, the C6 packages for kernel 5.4.x might not be possible for CentOS build stuff - as it requires a newer GCC and a few other tools
15:22:11 <anthonyper> Not much, we've got tags  for xen412 on centos8, so I just need to try building the packages in CBS.
15:22:15 <CRCinAU> but eh - 7 and 8 should be possible
15:23:20 <anthonyper> Actually, Karl ask to have GCC8 available to build the kernel on CentOS 6 and 7, so it would probably be possible to build newer kernels, (we already have access to gcc7)
15:23:55 <CRCinAU> my only concern.... we're already talking about Xen 4.14 stuff - I'm building 4.13, but we're moving official stuff to 4.12 :\
15:24:51 <CRCinAU> in an ideal world, xl etc would work between 4.x.y upgrades, so you could at least manage running VMs, and then just replace the hypervisor on reboot...
15:25:01 <gwd> CRCinAU: 4.12> That's what was decided by the CentOS Virt SIG users who participated in the discussion back in November.
15:25:02 <CRCinAU> ie seemless 4.12 -> 4.13 -> 4.14 etc
15:25:31 <CRCinAU> yeah - but that's also before talk of 4.14 started :\
15:25:58 <gwd> What was decided was "Second-to-newest release".  So when 4.14 comes out, we'll update to 4.13.
15:26:27 <gwd> The reason the default is still 4.8 is because we didn't have a policy for when to update.  Now we have a policy. :-)
15:26:50 <CRCinAU> so the SIG is going to always be N-1?
15:27:18 <CRCinAU> ie with packages xen412, xen413, xen414 etc?
15:27:51 <gwd> CRCinAU: The default for `centos-release-xen` will be N-1. I think it makes sense to have `centos-release-xenN` available for the newest version of N.
15:28:28 <gwd> CRCinAU: I can explain our scheme maybe on #centos-virt after the meeting?
15:28:34 <CRCinAU> I'm just concerned that at some point, when that switch happens, it'll lead some people to be marooned without a strategy to go between minors due to toolset breakage :\
15:28:52 <gwd> Dont' want to bore sbonazzo and ymankad too much, who are here for oVirt. :-)
15:29:16 <CRCinAU> unless of course, we start to split out the toolset into versioned packages and allow multi-installs of them
15:29:22 <CRCinAU> but that seems like a lot of work :\
15:29:42 <sbonazzo> gwd: nevermind, we are here for Virt SIG :-)
15:29:55 <gwd> sbonazzo: / ymankad: Would you mind explaining a bit what this "Advanced Virtualiation" thing is?
15:29:57 <sbonazzo> but yes, maybe this can be discussed on centos-virt
15:30:17 <gwd> IN particular, someone on #centos-virt said:
15:30:29 <gwd> why is any libiscsi*, nbd*, libnbd, netcf* shackled into the virt module? they have no depends on anything virtualization. So once a user installs anyone of those they are forced
15:30:34 <sbonazzo> ymankad: you want to go ahead?
15:30:40 <gwd> to use the `virt module`
15:31:22 <gwd> I haven't looked into it so I wasn't sure what kind of impact that would have on Xen in CentOS 8
15:31:28 <sbonazzo> ok so let me give some insight on that
15:31:50 <sbonazzo> In CentOS 8 we have qemu-kvm 2.12
15:32:22 <sbonazzo> In Advanced Virtualization we are going to ship qemu-kvm 4.1
15:32:34 <gwd> That looks like a pretty big jump. :-)
15:32:49 <sbonazzo> yes, indeed, that's why it's Advanced :-)
15:33:28 <sbonazzo> as the repo is being designed, it will be delivered like a module hotfix repo
15:33:41 <sbonazzo> meaning it will override all the packages shipped within virt module
15:33:51 <sbonazzo> if you enable that repository
15:34:52 <CRCinAU> being at the end of the chain, this whole module thing is...... what's a nice way to put it.... opaque...
15:35:44 <sbonazzo> I don't know the details about why some packages not strictly related to virtualization landed into virt module, maybe danilocesar will be able to elaborate on that. I guess it's related to some strict dependency from some package included in virt module
15:36:39 <gwd> OK.  As long as installing libiscsi*, and enabling the virt module, doesn't do anything that would prevent Xen packages from being installed, it's probably fine.
15:36:42 <gwd> Thanks!
15:37:15 <sbonazzo> gwd thank you :-)
15:37:25 <gwd> #topic AOB
15:37:29 <gwd> Anythign else to chat about?
15:37:47 <CRCinAU> the difficult bit, if your package is in a module, you can't even search for it without enabling the module first.
15:38:14 <gwd> I think modules probably came from Fedora, right?
15:38:15 <CRCinAU> reading between the lines (so maybe wrong), but are we looking to make the SIG packages a module?
15:38:30 <CRCinAU> its available in Fedora, but not really used from what I can tell.
15:39:08 <CRCinAU> There's probably some abstract logic as to what makes a module and what doesn't - and some stuff makes sense... ie php7.1 php7.2 etc
15:39:08 <gwd> I don't use Fedora; I only see articles about modules / whatever occasionally on LWN.
15:39:26 <CRCinAU> but others are their own modules for no other apparent reason than they can be
15:40:12 <CRCinAU> when I asked further, I was told to not expect to find the logic, but that modules follow the logic of a drunken toddler... ie it just is.
15:40:43 <CRCinAU> given what I've seen, I somewhat understand that analogy :P
15:41:09 <CRCinAU> however, for multi-version packages - modules can make sense if the search tooling was improved.
15:41:38 <CRCinAU> ie we certainly could look at Xen 4.12 / 4.13 etc being modules - and have the packages as a normal versioned xen-4.xx.yy etc
15:42:20 <CRCinAU> I hear its a multi-Gb toolset to manage the modules, but its food for thought.
15:43:53 <CRCinAU> but finding it, would be something like: dnf module enable xen-4.13 && dnf list xen*
15:44:15 <gwd> CRCinAU: I sort of had the idea that modules were implemented a bit like SIGs anyway -- you install a package that adds more repos into the mix of things yum/dnf look at.
15:44:16 <CRCinAU> without the module enable, dnf (list|search) wouldn't match anything for xen*
15:44:19 <gwd> But that could be a msiconception.
15:45:06 <CRCinAU> imho, the toolset needs to greatly improve.
15:45:09 <gwd> Anyway, sounds like the Virt SIG part of the meeting is done -- thanks everyone!
15:45:13 <gwd> #endmeeting